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 Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions

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ChainFire420
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PostSubject: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:17 pm

We all know this: its not Socom.

So the only way to look at it is from a neutral stand-point, how is it for a modern shooter?

The Controls
>Okay, not great but okay.

---R2 still acts weird for grenades, especially cause 90% of people will start and use grenades first. Should be able to "hold" grenade at the ready, cook or no cook. I want to aim my grenade, not "wing" it. Overall, R2 is a wasted button when it should be very important.

---Snap to cover is too restricting. Your Turn Speed drops significantly while behind cover, even if you're not using L1 to aim.

---Where's the control options used in every Socom past? Turn Speed, Acceleration, Dead Zone. These are one of the many things that have made Socom a step up from other shooters.

---Sprint seems fine.

---Push-To-Talk (PTT) on Dpad Up is not only inconveniently placed, but requires you to take your finger off atleast one other critical control, whether its the joystick or your L1 aim. Dpad Down would be better but still not ideal.
**Note: all Dpad controls are set for single-player Squad Controls, irrelevent and wasted when in Multiplayer**

---Playstation Move controls feel the best of any Move shooter yet. Unfortunately, because most players are hiding behind objects and sprinting through bushes, you rarely have clear targets to make good use of the Move with. Aiming at a specific spot is VERY difficult, no matter what game because most people's hand aren't rock-steady.

---The L2 equipment menu it very difficult to do on the fly. If you want to change grenades/equipment you need to find a nice safe coner to hide while you bring up the menu and switch. It takes a little longer than it did in Confrontation, and Confrontation wasn't a fast-paced respawn-based game. They need to make this faster and more responsive.
- - - - - -Additionally, I dont like the way you change Fire Modes. It should just be the tap of a button, I shouldn't have to open a gear menu to make a minor change. Not to mention if you're not paying attention to which weapon you're using, you might switch weapons rather change fire modes because they use the same buttons to make the change/switch.

Gameplay
>A slightly slower paced CoD, with MAG graphics and weapons.

---Airstrikes are well done, no one can deny that. Not only does it require you accomplish certain tasks to obtain them (5 kill streak, secure data, etc.) but it is only available as long as you're alive. If you die, you lose that airstrike. In addition, it takes time to acquire your target for an airstrike because your target has to be visible and stay visible while holding R2. Kudos to Zipper for a brilliant airstrike system!

---The camera needs work, but everyone already knows that. Camera was fixed by being moved back. Environment still messes it up though.

---Movement speed seems a little slow, but i actually think its a decent speed. Because the maps are so small, if you move any faster, you'd be impossible to hit running through bushes and around boxes. Everyone is used to Lightweight Perks and Marathon at this point, so it's nice that everyone is restricted to moving the same (though it should vary based on your loadout)

---Knifing seems a little broken. I have swung my knife at many opponents and unless they are directly in front of you, the knife will miss even if your swing arc goes through the opponent to the left or right of dead center (Confrontation's knife was dangerous as long as it was out, even to the sides of the swing). But if you come up behind someone, you will almost always get the kill.

---The character kinda floats when he jumps. He's air-born just a little too long.

---There's not enough indication as to when you're getting hit, often times none at all if its coming from behind you. You'll hear gunfire nearby, and ignore it while you're fighting someone else, but it turns out you were being shot in the back the whole time.

---The mic is open-mic when playing Respawn games (I like this). I would honestly feel better if Socom went open-mic, rather than PTT. If nothing else, it frees up a button because trying to place a button for the mic on the controller is difficult without making something else awkward. BUT, it should be PTT in the lobby.

---Grenades. Fixed.

Interface
>Needs improvements, badly.

---The voting system is horribly obstructing ESPECIALLY when sniping. And its on-screen for way too long. MAG had the opposite problem, it was barely visible at the bottom of the screen, but its not that important anyway. Voting doesn't need a "box", just 1 or two lines of text at the top or bottom of the screen (in SMALL font).
Voting was improved, but its I think its still too big and distracting. It needs to be a minor thing in a small area of the screen.

---There's no good reson to put giant solid-red diamonds over an enemy's head unless they have an objective or something with them. If you shoot an un-silenced weapon, the "direction of fire" indicator should be enough indication of their position, and if must be, make them appear on the radar. DONT put giant red markers over them, cause its a death sentence if you're that guy you're near their base.

---It's VERY difficult to tell friend from foe. Solid blue diamonds are obstructing and give no distance indication to your allies. What happened to the diamond outline? The character models of both teams are very similar and its incredibly difficult to tell friend from foe, especially in close-quarters.
This was fixed. The diamonds are smaller, outlined rather than solid, and are better located over friendly players heads.

---The Post-game screen goes away waaay too quickly. The scoreboard is the LAST screen we have to scroll to see. And why are Medals so easy to get? Every game is another 10-20 medals.

---The Clan Challenge area. Is there no way to sort the list of clans to the right? When this game comes out, there will be HUNDREDS of clans listed. You should be able to sort by Status (ready/not ready), Alphabetical, Time Zone, Rank, etc. This is textbook.
- - -In addition, why not using the Clan Lobby as a way of making a party system for regular games? Clan Deploy, like MAG except into the regular games, not Clan Matches. (Note: there should also be a party system for inviting friends and such, like MAG's "Group Queue").


Overall, once you get past all the obvious problems, and you get used to the controls and the flow of the game, its alright and I use that term loosely. Yes, you absolutely can have fun with this game, and playing with friends is always a huge plus. I have had a great time playing this game whether alone or with my clan. Personally, I prefer the respawn over the Classic in this game because you can feel it as you play, the maps and game-play were designed specifically around respawn. Its very apparent even while playing in Classic. Classic has waaaay too much camping. When I play a shooter, i wanna kill things and all the camping is a waste of my time.

Bottom line though, if i'm paying $60 for this game, the single-player had better be mind-blowingly awesome. Based on this beta, this should have been a $20-$30 PSN store game. I have yet to see where the years of work have gone into this game.




Last edited by ChainFire420 on Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:35 am; edited 6 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:37 pm

That's a great list and well thought out, mine was generic but to the point. LOL.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:53 pm

Its a collection of the scattered posts i put up before, and I plan to edit/add/update that post as I find or remember things. It's really just so i can organize my thoughts and keep them all in one place.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:10 pm

Socom is dead....i cant even play the beta anymore just trying to play with my clan....i mean ex clan cuz more than likely i won't have a game to play with them anymore....this saddens me..Very disappointed.......To many guys are that are true vets just accept this game and say they will buy it...I hear "you have to move on...It had to change sometime". Well thats true but with a socom name I'd expect a socom game not a cod ripoff....
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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:45 pm

I see people on the Beta forums defending this game as "the new socom", well FUCK those guys. They are idiots and are far beyond our help.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:32 pm

these socom 4 guys will claim to be socomers,
what a joke
mag in 3rd person
cheesy xp popping up to reward the kiddies
gay ass gun unlock bs...
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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:20 pm

The more I read the Beta forums and everyone's "Lists", the more i feel people need to learn to adjust to the game rather than adjusting the game to them. There are the big obvious fixes like Camera, Grenades, and Vote-box, but others things I think are fine like the gun spray, "bloom", OTS camera, crosshairs, etc.

I haven't had any issues in getting kills and doing well in this game. Like i said before, skills carry over from shooter to shooter. People think that CoD players that try this game will by default suck total ass. I can play almost any shooter and its not the shooting people that's any different, its usually just the controls. Once you get the controls down, its all the same.

People need to start accepting some changes because that's how it goes. That's life fellas, things change.

The real shame is that people are idiots. Just glancing over the titles of the threads people make on those forums I can tell that ZERO of those people will ever be pleased because they don't know how to adapt.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:06 pm

nice list


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:36 am

While my opinions of this game have not changed at all, i do find myself having fun when i play it. It's intense, objective-based, and challenging. But one thing I find as a re-occurring problem is the same one that I had when playing MAG with randoms. And it's that people aren't pulling their own weight. I can't tell you how many times a guy has stolen our data or defused a bomb in our base because no one is paying attention to the objective....just trying to kill people (and failing).

It's no longer about teamwork, its about the objective, which no one else is doing, and it drives me crazy because i can personally kill 3 people at our objective before someone finally kills me (there's always one or two more than I can handle). If literally ANYONE was helping me, we coulda stopped them completely.

Whenever my team loses, I'm always one of the two or three guys (if not the top guy) on our team with an awesome K/D ratio. It sucks to lose all the time, and it sucks even more when there's nothing you could do about it.

And now that i think about it, know what it is? Its the CoD element in the game. People with no mics running around shooting a bunch at stuff, not getting any kills, and not watching the objectives.

It literally goes against EVERYTHING that SOCOM stands for. This, ultimately, is the fault in the game. Its a US Navy SEALs game, for crying out loud.
Its not even about the gameplay anymore, or the mechanics, or the community -- its about our heroes over seas and across the world. This game does not represent the US Navy SEALs in any way. Its a disgrace to its own name. Special Operations Command, my ass.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:46 am

A well put together list. Kudos!
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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:39 am

After playing 2 weeks I am already bored of it.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:27 am

PAUL-AWOL- wrote:
After playing 2 weeks I am already bored of it.

Tends to happen when you can only play 2 crappy maps with restricted game modes. I really hope the other maps are better.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:02 pm

I really am starting to hate the respawn side of this game. You really see the COD leak through in the sense its spawn, run out there take as many as you can before you die, dead.

Like you said Chain. I hate how barely anyone pays attention to the damn objectives. People leaving the bomb defuser alone or spawning and running away from the last point we have to defend. Its freaking annoying.

However when you have a team or a few people that know what they are doing and use the mic, the game is fun. Im torn.
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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:37 pm

When i get back on, I'm going start playing the Classic mode heavily. i mostly played respawn to Mod-up some weapons as quick as I could, learn the maps, and learn the objectives. It's the same thing you would tell any noob in any socom game, right? Play respawn first.

I've done that and now its time to REALLY evaluate the Classic mode. Well, after I get this shitty project done...so later this week I'll be getting into it.

RaginPhoenix wrote:

Like you said Chain. I hate how barely anyone pays attention to the damn objectives. People leaving the bomb defuser alone or spawning and running away from the last point we have to defend. Its freaking annoying.

And yea, that drives me crazy. It happens on a regular basis, so my W/L ratio is trash even though my K/D ratio is awesome.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:03 pm

So yea, first night of all-Classic Nocom 4 and the verdict is:

WHAT THE FUCK IS WITH ALL THE CAMPING

That said, I have had very little fun so far. I played with both my clans tonight and we won some and lost some. Most games I was top2 or 3 on my team, win or lose. The broken mics make things VERY difficult, so we pretty much didn't talk while we played, only occasionally while we were dead and waiting. I came across A LOT of people laying down in corners, bushes, and foliage with SMGs and ARs.

--In a game where the maps are small and there is no respawn, people should not be able to throw grenades across the map.
--On Assault and Battery, Suppression, Spec Ops side, I got sniped two rounds in a row after only taking 3 steps forward ( I was the right-side spawn). This should not be possible.
--Unless PMN mines are on a flat lightly-colored surface (like concrete) they are damn near invisible.

My advice to any of you: don't play Classic. As much as you want to try to get as little of a Socom feel out of this game as possible, its not going to happen. It's not even REMINISCENT of Socom. The games are boring, frustrating, and all-together irritating. If you want to have any fun in this game, you have to play it like a CoD game. Whether you like it or not, thats what this game is and its not going to get any better.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:16 am

Chain I respectfully disagree. I played a ton of classic tonight and ended up playing with a clan called LnL. Honestly it reminded me of old time Socom. Both us and the opposition played for keeps to the point where I think only one round out of the 7 matches we played ended due to time.

Breaking into squads, strong mic activity, voting campers. It was old time Socom. Both teams were intelligent and you could tell they knew what they were doing.

Assault and Battery is usually a pretty protected spawn map. What do you mean you were sniped as soon as you spawned? Was there a lag? A slight delay? Or you spawned like normal and went down quick? Its really no different than spawning in dg and rushing to middle building and getting popped.

Classic mode was alive and well today. Really refreshed my Socom spirit. Lemme know next time your on and we will try and grab a game together.
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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:26 am

RaginPhoenix wrote:

Assault and Battery is usually a pretty protected spawn map. What do you mean you were sniped as soon as you spawned? Was there a lag? A slight delay? Or you spawned like normal and went down quick? Its really no different than spawning in dg and rushing to middle building and getting popped.

Classic Suppression doesn't spawn you in the "protected spawns" like it does in respawn, apparently. You spawn in front of those spawns, i assume so people cant just camp in the spawn where the other team cant go.

Maybe I just had some bad rooms because the camping was just awful and usually out of the 10 rounds, 3 or 4 would be due to time running out.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:21 pm

I don't mean protected spawns in the respawn sense but rather in the sense that it would take a damn lucky quick shot or a luck grenade to take someone out in the first 3 seconds.

My experience is that if your playing with a good group of people, its an extremely fun game. Otherwise is a boring, drawn out game. I don't have the patience to camp for the sake of camping so I usually rush to start if off. I love being behind someone who thinks they are safe behind the cover. LOL

I am digging the classic depending on the people. Hate the respawn though. Probably would just use it to warm up my gun game.
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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:50 am

RaginPhoenix wrote:
I don't mean protected spawns in the respawn sense but rather in the sense that it would take a damn lucky quick shot or a luck grenade to take someone out in the first 3 seconds.

My experience is that if your playing with a good group of people, its an extremely fun game. Otherwise is a boring, drawn out game. I don't have the patience to camp for the sake of camping so I usually rush to start if off. I love being behind someone who thinks they are safe behind the cover. LOL

I am digging the classic depending on the people. Hate the respawn though. Probably would just use it to warm up my gun game.

I know what he is talking about, except it usually happens to the Insurgents right spawn. It's one of my favorite techniques. Spawn left side Spec Ops and you can see the enemy spawn from your own. I can usually get off a kill or 2 in the first few seconds. I don't use the auto kill rifle either, so I can only imagine how devastating it could be if a couple good snipers did that at the start of the round.

I actually learn't it from watching HTK play. He was on the other team and he sniped me from the spawn. For those of you who don't know, HTK works for Zipper.

It is poor map design, and should not be able to be done. It isn't the same as DG, because with a slight bit of lag, you can actually get sniped before you get a chance to move. It has become obvious to me that those 2 maps were designed for respawn and to make all modes available on them. The main problem is the new game modes they have are respawn based and require symmetrical maps. Great maps require inspiration, something that appears to have not been involved.

I totally agree with the other part of your post.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:49 am

NAME-LESS wrote:
I know what he is talking about, except it usually happens to the Insurgents right spawn. It's one of my favorite techniques. Spawn left side Spec Ops and you can see the enemy spawn from your own. I can usually get off a kill or 2 in the first few seconds. I don't use the auto kill rifle either, so I can only imagine how devastating it could be if a couple good snipers did that at the start of the round.

Yea, the spawns straight across from each other can snipe eachother. I spawn on Spec Ops right spawn, and get shot from directly in front of me (I will call them Alpha spawns, cause they are closest to Alpha by the garage, the other side will be be Charlie spawns, by the sniper post). Charlie spawns can snipe eachother and Alpha spawns can snipe eachother, so i always end up pulling a 180 whehn I spawn and heading around back, and through the Main building of our spawn and then down the middle. It makes me feel really limited in terms of what my options are when making my way across the map.

If it happens to my again, i'll break out the recording equipment, lol.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:18 pm

Another thing I forgot about and no one else seems to have mentioned.....the scoreboard.

--It doesn't order by Kills and Deaths. In fact, it seems to be complete random order.
--This game is all about the color yellow. It DOMINATES the menus. Everything interface-wise is yellow or yellow-bordered, so i think your name on the Scoreboard should be a different color...something more eye-catching like , or even just Bolded. Bolded-white i think would stick out nicely. EDIT: I didn't realize it was already white. Green, perhaps?
--Also, i think the player ON YOUR TEAM (ONLY) who is or has the objective should appear Blue or Bolded-blue so you can easily tell who the team should be protecting. The blue "man" icon over people's heads is really hard to see amongst all the giant blue diamonds.
**Old Socoms would put the "satchel symbol" next to the player's name with the bomb**
--It should be easier and faster to Mute people, like in CoD. Just a button press, like X or SQUARE on each person to mute them. Why do i have to pull up their whole player card to do it?


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:33 pm

The mini-map does not follow the player you are spectating while you are dead. Doesn't make a difference at all, but its odd.


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PostSubject: Re: Nocom 4 - ChainFire's compiled opinions   Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:36 am

Slightly updated. Mostly just the transfer from Beta to Full-game and the patch that was carried over.

I will be back with more after i have had a thorough cahnce to play the game when classes are done and the PSN servers are back up.


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